silverbeatle57

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 25
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Reply with quote | #16 |
Thanks Marty for your detailed reply. I totally agree. I think when you remix a previously MONO recording to a STEREO mix ...there is where potential drastic changes can occure. Say for example, Dave Clark of Dave Clark 5. He has been against the old tracks being remixed to stereo, although it has already been done on their hits. The states that the echo in the original MONO mix is almost gone in the stereo that we all grew up on. That seems to be his primary reason to not back the idea. Since that statement I think he retracted that and is involved or has already remixed all to stereo in a box set, so I have been told. I do like the punch and the clarity of the stereo remixes. I have never heard some of the details of the recording until I heard the stereo remixes from DC5. I think George Martin feels the same way with some of the originally mixed to MONO recordings of his producing, especially the Beatles are more well balanced and EQed in their MONO mixes than STEREO. More importantly, the STEREO mixes were usually done after the creative talent was off doing something else, so they had little or no involvement with how it sounded in STEREO, in those days. They put all their effort for a UK and European release, in those days, for a predominantly MONO audience. Not everyone had a stereo phonograph in 1963-67. I did really get into popular groups STEREO mixes until 1965-66, even though I had a stereo turn table. The US had always been on the technology cutting edge especially in the recording arena. (ie) Mick Jagger and the boys choice to do MOST of theri 1964-66 recordings here in the good ol' USA, for that reason. Finally, in recent years, we have heard in legitimate releases or bootlegged form, of what Jagger was talking about. Their Chess sessions original stereo masters, which I have heard most of, has such punch. Charlie Watts drums and Bill Wymans bass are punched way up. In contrast, Satisfaction, Time On My Side Heart of Stone and Get Off My Cloud have the drums and bass turned way down. That may be because it was a different studio, too, RCA, Hollywood, I believe. If you listen to their Aftermath sessions, for the most part, they also were a bit light with bass and drums, for some reason. Probably the same engineer did all those tracks. So, yes, better EQing can fix allot of that without altering the instrumental balance as was originally intended during the sessions. I wonder if the Stones had any say in how their recordings were balanced especially during their long Aftermath sessions, (late1965-late66). At least were they involved, as the Beatles were, during their MONO mixing sessions? If you have also heard I Get Around by the Beach Boys, is a perfect example of how stereo remixing can drastically change the recording. I have a clean...NON SYNCED stereo version of that song and, once again, there are instruments I have NEVER heard in the original mono or Duophonic releases. Contrary to popular opinion the mix I have of that track has the lead guitar intact and not lost, it is the same take, too. Thanks for your thoughts.
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silverbeatle57

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 25
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Reply with quote | #17 |
Hi folks, It has been a long time since I wrote all these two enteries. I still would like to know one question. Being an on again off again classic Stones recording fan....I still have some questions that no one has commented on. So please help me out those who are STONES recording experts. Here is a reprint of what I wrote some time back. The questions still remain unanswered by anyone. When I discussed that German website that had a well researched Stones music chronology..it mentions on several occasions that Brian Jones DID DO SOLO VOCALS. It has also been documented that Mick and Keith never gave Brian his due on how in influenced the group and what his contributions were and to the degree they were. Brian did do two solo vocals during their 1964 Regent Sound UK sessions ..one of them had the legendary Gene Pitney accompany him. I forget the tracks names but it is well documented. I just hope that that sees the light of day...(ie) Stones Anthology? I also believe lead vocal on that naughty track from the 1964 Regent Sound London sessions which was titled: "Andrews Blues"..is also Brian Jones singing solo. Listen to it. It has been bootleged. Who else could it be? All other documentation gives the vocal credits to Andrew Oldham ..himself....or someone else but not Brian. Why would Andrew Oldham sing a song about himself as a put down? And further more who is "Sir Edward" that the track keeps referring to? The only other time I heard that name mentioned used in a title was many years later when the Rollings Stones got their own label. The LP was called "Jamming with Edward". Is this the same "Edward"....who the hell is he anyway? Is this like that that Nanker Phlege composer name that the group created. There is really noone with that name...or is it just an internal-group code for someone. So as far as the solo singer on "Andrews Blues"...it is not likely that Andrew Oldham is singing because why would he sing about himself in second person. Reason...it wasn't Andrew..it had to be Brian Jones or someone else singing lead. The backing vocals were noted as Graham Nash, Gene Pitney, Mick Jagger.....and what's this....Phil Spector. What an odd combination? Who did they ever get together..some party? It was obviously this track was never intended for release. It seems that this was just the Stones way of being themselves to let off steam in Regent studio, London. Does anyone have any thoughts on who really does this vocal...bad one at that? Brian clearly never had a good singing voice and that is probably why he and the rest of the group no longer miked him or turned him down so it couldn't be heard. They even did that on occasion with his guitar. Notice him always trying to turn his amp up. On many occasions you cant hear him sing or hear his guitar even when he clearly is miked and hooked up with his amp. Weird. I noticed that on the TAMI show. Its all Over Now. Hey is clearly screaming in the mike and giving that power strum. YOU CANT HEAR HIM. Anyone...what's up with that? Please advise you Stoned heads out there.
Silverbeatle57 now 58 and aging by the moment.
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Peterelliott Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 931
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Reply with quote | #18 |
Quote: Originally Posted by silverbeatle57 And further more who is "Sir Edward" that the track keeps referring to?
...The backing vocals were noted as Graham Nash, Gene Pitney, Mick Jagger.....and what's this....Phil Spector. What an odd combination? Who did they ever get together..some party? It was obviously this track was never intended for release. It seems that this was just the Stones way of being themselves to let off steam in Regent studio, London. Does anyone have any thoughts on who really does this vocal...bad one at that?
"Sir Edward" was none other than Sir Edward Lewis - the boss of UK Decca Records, also the man who owned and formed the company a few decades earlier. Relations between him, Oldham and The Stones was best described as "rocky." This was a problem the Stones had with Decca... it's heads were all considerably older so didn't really like nor understand pop music. That was why Lewis employed Jonathan King as his personal assistant for a few years, because King being much younger was able to "understand" and liaise with all the long haired groups Lewis didn't understand nor liked... though he was happy to make money from them!
I believe the Gene Pitney business occurred on his birthday. He was in the UK on a tour or promotion at the time - his current disc was "That Girl Belongs To Yesterday"... written by Mick and Keef. Spector was in town and they were also buddies with The Hollies. So that was why that odd line up found themselves together and participated in that recording. It could be nothing more than a "fun" session since Nash was signed to EMI, Spector signed to himself and Pitney another company so there was no chance whatever they recorded could be released. Pitney insisted they all had a drink to celebrate his birthday and that was when the tape began to roll.
This is the first time I've ever heard it suggested that Brian Jones sang some vocals. Bill Wyman did refer to this session in his two books on the Stones and in neither did he mention the fact that Brian was singing... and I'm pretty sure he would had mentioned it had Brian sang since the second book "Rolling With The Stones" when he talks about Brian's death he makes a plea for Brian to be pardoned of all the abusive remarks that have been made about him since his death, a sideway swipe at Mick and Keef who have been critical about Brian, ESPECIALLY Keef who still doesn't seem to have grown up, not forgiving Brian for being on a little more money than the rest of the band in it's earliest days...
Brian was being "victimised" as early as 1964. Andrew Oldham has even admitted he didn't believe in Brian as a frontman so worked to get Mick and Keith together as a unit to shift the power, giving them more prominence. They were also smarting about the fact Brian was being paid more as band "leader" so they were going to lengths to antagonize Brian. Basically, they resented him being there which is most unfortunate since it was Brian who created the band, a point Charlie Watts was keen to highlight when talking about Brians' demise in the "25x5" documentary. So Brian was getting short shrift from Mick, Keith and Andrew Oldham which created many problems for Brian and is believed that helped decimate his confidence. So, there were all manner of petty games going on. That's not saying Brian was a Saint... he wasn't and he helped made things worse for himself in many ways, but I do think he was given a rough ride once the money started piling up.
I believe that Mick, Keith and Oldham all wanted Brian out of the band, partly for personal reasons and partly because he was an unpredictable liability... he had had several paternity suits by then which were a potential embarrassment to the band. But they couldn't fire him since they knew it technically was Brians' band from day one so they tried to make things intolerable in the hope that Brian would get cheesed off and walk out. Unfortunately for Brian, he didn't, so by the time Mick and Keith were able to boot him out - using the excuse he couldn't tour America because of his drug convictions - Brian was a broken man, in no position to fight back.
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Boppin_Brian

Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 3,720
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Reply with quote | #19 |
Was not "Sir Edward" singled out for "special attention" in more than one Mick n Keef "outtake"??? (ca. the group's "uneasy" [listening?] ending of their Decca contract....)
Back to you, .............suckers.............. (Sunday school language, please)
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Helmut Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 889
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Reply with quote | #20 | I don't think, that there was so much "conspiracy" against Brian Jones in the band. I think they were all very busy with themselves. Oldham once kept Ian Stewart out of the band, cause his appearance didn't fit into the band. So he must have been very aware how important Jones was for the visual image being the most attractive bandmember. Also Keith and Brian were very close by 1967 going on holidays together and - as Wyman writes in his book - being "Brothers in Arms" concerning the band.
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Boppin_Brian

Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 3,720
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Reply with quote | #21 |
Oh, yeah, just smashing... (And most attractive...)(Sorry couldn't find the infamous nose-picking Crawdaddy cover shot...)
![[BrianJonesSS.jpg]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Hj4neqKqbSw/Si5cr16m2XI/AAAAAAAAA8g/Sk3EcbGW1-0/s1600/BrianJonesSS.jpg)
Aha.

Gone 40 years, this past July ...
![[BrianJonesgrave.jpg]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Hj4neqKqbSw/Si5d8wJaDJI/AAAAAAAAA8w/nxShTaznuDQ/s1600/BrianJonesgrave.jpg)
(Cheltenham)
Wasn't there talk of a Brian Jones bio-pic? Morbid media moguls and conspiracy terror--- er, theorists have likely moved on to the next, fresher "corpse" - that King of Whatever....
Hmmmm...... "The Brian Jones Story: This is NOT It"???
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Helmut Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 889
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Reply with quote | #22 |
Quote: Oh, yeah, just smashing... (And most attractive...)(Sorry couldn't find the infamous nose-picking Crawdaddy cover shot...)
Funny pics...but I still have some old "Bravo"-magazines from the mid 60s (leading youth magazine in those days) And by that time Brian Jones was the girls' favourite Rolling Stone.
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silverbeatle57

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 25
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Reply with quote | #23 | Hello again,
I finally found the website for us Stone-heads out there. http://www.nzentgraf.de/books/zent.htm
This includes the info on Jones solo vocals, about 2 or 3 that were never released but documented. These were done during the 1964 London Regent sound sessions...during their first LP.
This also has all the Beatles sessions he attended including the strange gig he did with the Yardbirds. It even gets into the rumors of a group he was trying to form after he was fired by Mick and Keef. It rumors further that some of the session players for whatever demo tapes were made were of non other than the legendary Jimi Hendrix. Strange lineup, I'd say.
Let me know what you think. Very informative or well done fiction...you decide.
Take care.
Silverbeatle 57...well into 58 now.
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DrawerL Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 565
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Reply with quote | #24 | The lead singer on "Andrew's Blues" is....PHIL SPECTOR.---I thought everybody knew that....
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MusicTrax Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 4,614
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Reply with quote | #25 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Boppin' Brian Wasn't there talk of a Brian Jones bio-pic?
Yes. The film was called Stoned, and it had a short release about four years ago in 2005. It was based on Geoffrey Giuliano's novel "Paint It Black: The Murder of Brian Jones."
I've never seen it, but I think to do a historical film like this the right way, you'd have to spend a huge amount of money licensing all the songs, recreating all the locations, get the cars, the hairstyles, the clothes, all that stuff right. It'd cost $25 million just to set all that up before you shot the movie. I can't see a way to do it as a cheap indie flick, which is what this was.
This review in Daily Variety kept me away: Variety.com. They cited the problems I did, particularly not being able to use the Stones' songs in the soundtrack, which to me is kind of a deal killer.
I think it's a great idea of a movie, but then, so is a biographical pic on Phil Spector. Doing that would present similar challenges, the least of which is that Phil is still alive and would want to approve the script.
--Marc W. |
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silverbeatle57

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 25
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Reply with quote | #26 |
BRIAN JONES UNSTONED AND STONED SOLO WORK: 1963 20th - 21st November: London, Regent Sound Studios. Producer: Andrew Oldham. Sound engineer: Bill Farley. - Leave Me Alone (MJ/KR) -STU on piano - It Should Be You I (MJ/KR) -demo for George Bean - It Should Be You II (MJ/KR) -Rolling Stones-version - Shang A Doo Lang (MJ/KR) -demo for Adrienne Poster - So Much In Love (MJ/KR) -demo for The Mighty Avengers BRIAN JONES- Sure I Do (BJ) -unverified -`Will You By My Lover Tonight (MJ/KR) - demo for George Bean; unverified - With A Song In My Heart ( ) -unconfirmed Note: Many other tracks (mostly for the Andrew Oldham Orchestra) have been recorded in these seesions, one or more Stones might have been involved, but there are no clues.
1964 6th February: London, Pye Studios. Producer: Jonathan Rollands. Sound engineer: Glyn Johns. Recording of an advertising-jingle for Kellog’s Rice Krispies breakfast cereal.
BRIAN JONES - Kellogs Rice Krispies I (BJ/J. Walter Thompson) BRIAN JONES - Kellogs Rice Krispies II (BJ/J. Walter Thompson) -unverified Note: First aired on ITV in early 1964. Two different films to this 30-seconds-advertising jingle exist.
29th March: THE YARDBIRDS. London, Crawdaddy Club. BRIAN JONES - Brian Jones substitutes on harmonica for Keith Relf who was ill. Line-up: BJ (harm)/Eric Clapton (gtr)/Chris Dreja (gtr)/Paul Samwell-Smith (bass)/Jim McCarty (dr)
18th December: PETER & GORDON. LP ‘In Touch With Peter And Gordon’ (Columbia 33SX 660). Producer: Norman Newell. Recorded probably in London in Autumn 1964. Incl. - A Mess Of Blues (Doc Pomus/Mort Shuman) - Love Me, Baby (PeterAsher/Gordon Waller) BRIAN JONES - Line-up: BJ (harm)/Peter Asher (voc, gtr)/Gordon Waller(voc, gtr)/.(bass)/... (dr)
BRIAN JONES -I Want You To Know" is another unreleased Rolling Stones recording from December 1963. . Legendary crooner Gene Pitney is to have assisted Jones in the completion of this track.This track was produced into an acetate demo and shopped around as a potential recording vehicle for emerging artists. BRIAN JONES "Wake Up In The Morning" is an October 1963 commercial jingle the Stones recorded for Rice Krispies Cereal that was utilized for European consumers. Evidence suggests that Jones did compose and record some embryonic Rolling Stones material. The music is vintage sounding Stones, composed by Jones. BRIAN JONES "Dust My Pyramids" is thought to be a Jones instrumental performed by the group on a January 1964 BBC Radio broadcast. BRIAN JONES "A Degree of Murder" Other things like the legendary soundtrack for this movie. composed by Brian Jones and recorded. That would be an amazing one to find. BRIAN JONES The other item is that Jones was forming a group just before his death and there may be some demos around with
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cswa913102

Registered: 02/09/09
Posts: 736
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Reply with quote | #27 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Helmut Oldham once kept Ian Stewart out of the band, cause his appearance didn't fit into the band. What, was he good-looking or something? |
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silverbeatle57

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 25
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Reply with quote | #28 | Hi there,
Not all of your comments came up in the BSN thread but you said that Andrew Oldham asked to have Ian Stewart not go on tour in their concerts because he didnt fit their look, in fact wanted him out of the band but the others especially Brian objected. So he stayed but didnt tour with them. You asked was he good looking. Not especially. In fact he sort of looked like a bull dog. VERY rough and tough looking. He had very thick and bushy eye brows that had a life of their own. His hair was combed back like an old teddy boy (UK) look. Like the US 1950's wild bunch. So NO he did NOT fit the mold but he did tour later and I remember seeing him during their 1969 tour after 3 years off. Ian Stewart had a white tuxedo with white tails. When he was introduced by Mick everyone stood up and gave him a standing ovation because the REAL Stones fans knew he was the last surviving member of the founders of the Rolling Stones after Brian Jones death that same year. Very memorable. For some reason around Beggers Banquet and thereafter he never did any studio work with them. Anyone know why? He did die recently as well. It may be a couple years a go. Anyone know exactly when?
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Darrell Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 2,260
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Reply with quote | #29 |
Quote: Originally Posted by silverbeatle57 Hi there,
Not all of your comments came up in the BSN thread but you said that Andrew Oldham asked to have Ian Stewart not go on tour in their concerts because he didnt fit their look, in fact wanted him out of the band but the others especially Brian objected. So he stayed but didnt tour with them. You asked was he good looking. Not especially. In fact he sort of looked like a bull dog. VERY rough and tough looking. He had very thick and bushy eye brows that had a life of their own. His hair was combed back like an old teddy boy (UK) look. Like the US 1950's wild bunch. So NO he did NOT fit the mold but he did tour later and I remember seeing him during their 1969 tour after 3 years off. Ian Stewart had a white tuxedo with white tails. When he was introduced by Mick everyone stood up and gave him a standing ovation because the REAL Stones fans knew he was the last surviving member of the founders of the Rolling Stones after Brian Jones death that same year. Very memorable. For some reason around Beggers Banquet and thereafter he never did any studio work with them. Anyone know why? He did die recently as well. It may be a couple years a go. Anyone know exactly when?
Stewart died 12-12-1985. Even though the Stones, at Oldham's insistance, didn't have Stewart on stage with them, he acted pretty much as a roadie and did a lot of grunt work during their very early touring days. I don't know how he put up with it. He also played a mean boogie-woogie and honky tonk piano on a number of their songs in the first few years.
As to why he stopped appearing on their studio recordings songs after about 1968, my guess is that his style of piano playing no longer fit their music (or their life styles). That and the fact that Nicky Hopkins, Billy Preston, and Ian McLagen came along. However, Stewart did perform on their tours in 1969, 1975-76, 1978 and 1981-82.
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